X22, Christian Patriot News, and more- March 20

 

Do I know exactly what will go down tomorrow? Nope.

Here's what I do know for sure: The Left won't win either way. Nothing can stop their demise.

Here's tonight's news:

GAF: New Autumn Harvest movie announced with Danica McKeller

 

Source: https://people.com/tv/danica-mckellar-new-rom-com-swing-into-romance-great-american-family/?utm_campaign=peoplemagazine&utm_content=new&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=6418cd16c22aaa000154a49a

Danica McKellar is ready to shake and shimmy into her next role!

PEOPLE can exclusively reveal that The Wonder Years alum, who competed on season 18 of Dancing with the Stars in 2014, will be putting those skills to the test once more in the coming months as she films Swinging into Romance, her latest rom-com movie for Great American Family.

According to the network, the film follows former dancer Christine Sims (McKellar) when she temporarily returns to her hometown for the Fall Festival and learns that her family's General Store is struggling. In order to help save the business, Christine will need to dust off her dancing shoes and face her ex-fiancé — and she may even find love in the process.

"I've been wanting to dance in a movie since I was on Dancing with the Stars in 2014, but I've always loved dancing," McKellar, 48, tells PEOPLE. "My mom was a professional dancer before I was born, so the love of dance is in my genes."

COURTESY OF DANICA MCKELLAR

McKellar is one of the executive producers on the film, which hits very close to home for her since her husband, Scott Sveslosky, wrote the story!

"Back in 2017, I told my husband that I wanted to play a math teacher in a movie, and he wrote the story for a movie that ended up being called Campfire Kiss, and I did that for Hallmark," McKellar explains. "More recently, I said, 'I really want to dance in a movie,' and he wrote this story."

She adds, "He's not a writer! He's a lawyer. He just is good at putting together ideas when I really want to do something. And it's just fun to have that knowledge that he's a part of this."

Asked if those ideas stem from a conversation, or if he surprises her with a story, the actress is quick to recognize Sveslosky's romantic gesture.

"More or less, he will surprise me with it," she says. "He'll say, 'Hey, so remember when you were talking about how you wanted to do a movie about dance?' I'm like, 'Yeah.' And he says, 'Well I wrote this 10 pages of a story. What do you think?' So it's really all him. Again, it's not his day job, so the fact he will take to time to do that is really cool. He's so romantic. I hit the jackpot."

ADAM TAYLOR/DISNEY GENERAL ENTERTAINMENT CONTENT VIA GETTY

Swinging into Dance hasn't yet cast a costar or choreographer for McKellar, but that hasn't kept her from hitting the floor.

"I have been training anyway," she admits. "Not specific dance moves, but in general, with a coach. Because, let's face it, it's nine years after Dancing with the Stars — so I'm nine years older — and it's not something I do every day. But I love it so much and I want to do a good job. So, like anything else, I'm doing my best to prepare."

With her next Christmas movie shooting soon after this film, McKellar says 2023 is "a busy year of dancing, which is really exciting. I'm not sure I could ever quite obtain what I had during Dancing with the Stars, but I'll maybe get into the second-best shape of my life. It's my job, after all!"

Last month, Great American Family announced that McKellar would star in their 2023 holiday movie Royal Christmas Ball, which she'll also executive produce based on a story she wrote with Marcy Holland.

Swinging into Romance will debut in the fall as part of the network's Autumn Harvest event.

There is No ‘Right’ and ‘Left,’ Only Right and Wrong

There is No ‘Right’ and ‘Left,’ 

Only Right and Wrong

Raymond Ibrahim for Stream.org

One of the most misleading and dangerous words that all sane people need to use with caution — if not do away with altogether — is the “Left.” 

Why? Because it bestows legitimacy on insanity and worse.

 A Dangerous Paradigm

In current discourse, the Left and Right are seen as polar opposites on a continuum of political views.  Imagine a horizontal line:  the further right one goes, the more conservative, religious, traditional, one becomes; the further left, the more one becomes the opposite — liberal, secular, and progressive.  

Meanwhile, and here’s arguably the most misleading aspect of this paradigm, the middle of the line — the “centrist” position — becomes the default “middle ground,” the area where supposedly non-ideologically charged people reside.

To a large extent, this paradigm is nonsense and increasingly being used to legitimize falsehoods and corruption. It is built atop an assumption — that there are no truths, or if there are, they are somewhere in the middle. Inasmuch as one veers to the right or left he becomes an “extremist.”

Choose “Moderate” Madness

As one example, consider the rise of gender confusion, if not hysteria, where “identifying” with either gender — or make believe genders — automatically makes one of that gender, and woe to whoever objects. Anyone who refers to this development as “Leftist” unwittingly legitimizes it.  After all, and as seen in the current model, the Left, by its very nomenclature, is part of a legitimate spectrum of political views, no different than the right. 

Based on this model, people on the “Right,” who staunchly believe there are two, and only two, genders, are merely the polar opposites of those who believe in an infinite number of genders. Thus both deserve equal respect — equal legitimacy in the so-called discourse of ideas — certainly from the supposedly “objective” fellow in the “middle.”

In reality, there are only two genders — “Left/Right” constructs be damned. Affirming this scientific fact is not a “Rightist” position.  It is a factual position. Anything that diverges from it, by a little or by a lot, is wrong, unworthy of consideration or debate and deserving of zerolegitimacy. In this context, the Right is right, pure and simple; and everything that moves left of it is wrong. That includes the squishy “Chamber of Commerce” Right and certainly the Center — to say nothing of the Left, where unadulterated madness reigns.

Anything that diverges even a little from truth should be seen for what it is — a falsehood, a lie from the father of lies, in a word, evil.

For people of faith, especially monotheists (Jews, Christians, and Muslims), understanding what is going on, and what words to use, should be especially simple. After all, religions presuppose truths; that is what they are all about — offering a worldview based on truisms. 

That truism may be that God created Adam and Eve or that homosexuality of any kind is a sin, literally, a missing of the mark, an error. Whatever that religious truism is, going against it should not be seen by the faithful as an “alternate” position, one on a make-believe line stretching from right to left, with each extreme having its own “logic.”

Anything that diverges even a little from truth should be seen for what it is — a falsehood, a lie. In this more accurate context, those who spew gender nonsense can at last be seen for what they truly are: not “extreme Leftists,” but poor souls who suffer from insanity or possession. These adjectives may appear highly offensive — though no more offensive than the positions they describe — but at least they more accurately define what you’re really dealing with.

The Spirit of the Age — ‘Do What Thou Wilt’

What about atheists and agnostics?  There was a time when, despite their personal beliefs (or lack thereof), their worldview was still permeated by a heritage of rational thinking and logic. (That word, not coincidentally, derives from Logos.) So they could deny God but also question the current madness of the age. As time “progresses,”and their connection to Logos becomes weaker and weaker, they, too, lose the ability to accept absolute truisms. The current spirit of the age — “do what thou wilt” — becomes their default position.

Words matter; and the war on words is not limited to manipulating the meaning of man or woman, but rather manipulating people — including Christians and conservatives — into seeing politics through a “Right/Left” prism.

So long as we continue to refer to madness or worse as “the Left,” so long will we continue to legitimize and give it a platform.  More accurate words are needed.   For people of faith who accept absolute truths in the realm of morality — or just people who accept scientific fact — finding more accurate words should not be difficult.

When it comes to a number of controversial topics, there is no Right or Left; there is only Right or Wrong.  The sooner this is acknowledged, the sooner sanity will prevail.

Donald Trump, American Dissident

You cannot expect your base to show up for you on Election Day if they believe you are willing to acquiesce to a rigged system.

by Matthew Boose for American Greatness

Donald Trump has had an unusually long and dramatic tenure at the center of American politics. The reason is simple: Trump has an indomitable personality and an abiding refusal to kowtow to the establishment’s sacred cows. From the moment he entered the arena, he continuously provoked the ruling powers into a hysterical frenzy of breathless rage. Indeed, it’s hard to think of another American political figure who has caused more chaos, or faced more concerted and unscrupulous opposition.

Only days ago, Trump sent his enemies up a wall with a blistering statement calling for an immediate end to the war in Ukraine, which he dared to call a “proxy battle,” and not the moral crusade for “democracy” that busybodies in both parties in Washington have described ad nauseam. America’s most dangerous foes are not in Russia, Trump said, but right here at home. Patriotic Americans are under siege by corrupt, “godless” tyrants who want to flood their neighborhoods with foreigners, force “Marxist” ideology on them and their children, and let politically protected criminals run amok, Trump said.

It was one of those statements that makes you ask, did he really just say that?

Trump has always distinguished himself from the great mass of ordinary politicians this way. He doesn’t mince words, but goes right to the heart of the matter. Trump won the abiding hatred of the political class in 2016 by noting a number of illegal Mexican border crossers were “rapists” and proposing a so-called “Muslim ban” that, in reality, was just a halt on immigration from select countries on the U.S. terrorist watch list. This was nothing short of a frontal assault on the Overton window and the idols of the anti-white globalists who have run the show for decades.

Trump went on to commit the unforgivable sin of humiliating the ruling elite by winning an election he was supposed to lose to Hillary Clinton. As he absorbed the slings and arrows of the establishment’s rage, he would become a martyr and a champion for a way of life to his followers.

The word now is that they’re going to arrest Trump in his native New York, the caput Mundi of the liberal order and the city where he built his real estate empire. On paper, the charges have something to do with a porn star and “campaign finance,” but these are merely the outward names for a nakedly political witch hunt that has gone on for almost a decade.

Trump’s arrest obviously has nothing at all to do with the law. The prosecutor, a man named Alvin Bragg, is a black, leftist, George Soros-supported oaf who has plunged New York City into anarchy. Trump, perhaps the most famous person in the world—and a Hitlerian figure in Manhattan—can hardly expect to receive anything resembling a fair trial. It is the height of absurdity to suggest that a former American president and declared presidential candidate would be treated like a “regular criminal,” and galling even to invoke the “rule of law” when everyone knows that his rival, Joe Biden, who has been credibly accused of laundering millions in dirty Chinese dollars, will never face consequences.

The Trump witch hunt has never been about one man. If Donald Trump is arrested on these baseless charges, it will be an act of hostility toward millions and an attack on the political principle of self-rule. A free country cannot tolerate a corrupt, local machine prosecutor making an American president and opposition leader into a political prisoner. It will prove that Our Democracy™ is a sham, no better than Putin’s Russia, or, for that matter, Zelenskyy’s Ukraine.

All Republican primary candidates must vigorously and unequivocally defend Trump against this fraud. So far, we have seen damning hesitation from all but a few in the party, like businessman and primary candidate Vivek Ramaswamy and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.). Republicans who are reluctant risk discrediting themselves. You cannot expect your base to show up for you on Election Day if they believe you are willing to acquiesce to a rigged system.

Some on the right, fearful of entrapment by the government, advise inaction in response to Trump’s urgent calls for resistance. Clearly, the January 6th witch hunt has had a chilling effect. Entrapment is a legitimate concern: there’s nothing the establishment would like more than to create another pretext to crack down on dissent. Menshiviks like Adam Kinzinger are already blowing raspberries over the prospect of political violence. But a passive reaction would serve their goals just the same by humiliating the opposition. Americans have a right to assemble peaceably. If Americans are too fearful to protest an act of brazen tyranny, the country is already lost.

Mike Pence Says, “We’re not asserting executive privilege” for Testimony Related to 2020 Election Challenge

Sundance reporting at Conservative Treehouse 

Slightly interesting, and in the big picture somewhat expected.  During a lengthy interview with ABC’s primary propagandist, Jonathan Karl, former VP Mike Pence asserts that if he is forced to give testimony to Special Counsel Jack Smith on conversations with President Trump about the 2020 election results, the legal team behind Pence will not assert that private conversation as “executive privilege.”

This approach was expected by the most cynically minded, because it explains why Pence is delaying any presidential race announcement.  If Pence is to be valuable to the special counsel, he must testify before he makes a 2024 announcement, or else his testimony gives the impression of denying “executive privilege” in order to undermine his opponent, Donald Trump – which is, of course, his true motivation. Video [@21:36] and Full Transcript Below:

We all know a Mike Pence person in our lives. A person highly skilled in delivering weaponized superiority and passive aggression.  Mike Pence was always the earworm.

[Transcript] – JONATHAN KARL, “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: Mr. Vice President, thank you for taking the time to talk to us here in Iowa.

FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Thank you Jon, good to be with you.

KARL: As — as I’m sure you’ve seen, Donald Trump is saying that he’s going to be indicted on Tuesday, he’s calling for people to protest, now we — we don’t know if that’s true, the Manhattan D.A. has not said anything about it, but he’s calling for people to protest. Is that irresponsible?

PENCE: Well first let me say, I’m taken aback at the idea of indicting a former president of the United States, at a time when there’s a crime wave in New York City, that — the fact that the Manhattan D.A. thinks that indicting President Trump is his top priority, I think is, just tells you everything you need to know about the radical left in this country. It’s a — the last five years Democrats have been dismantling tough criminal justice in the city of New York. Families are paying the price and yet this is what we get.

It just feels like a politically charged prosecution here. And I, for my part, I just feel like it’s just not what the American people want to see. We got real challenges in this country today, Jon. People are facing record inflation, a crisis at our border. We have war in Eastern Europe, the American people are anxious about the future and here we go again, back into another politically charged prosecution directed at the former president of the United States, and I would just hope for better.

KARL: But he’s calling on people to protest, to come out and protest, “take our nation back.” We know what happened the last time he said that.

PENCE: Well Jon, the American people have a constitutional right to peaceably assemble — and express their …

KARL: Absolutely, but to have a former president calling on people to protest a — a — a — a justice proceeding.

PENCE: The frustration the American people feel about what they sense is a two-tiered justice system in this country, I think — I think is well founded but — I — and — I believe that people understand that if they give voice to this, if this occurs on Tuesday, that they need to do so peacefully and in a lawful manner. That the violence that occurred on Jan. 6, the violence that occurred in cities throughout this country in the summer of 2020, was a disgrace. The American people won’t tolerate it and those that engage in that kind of violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

KARL: But you say he’s a former president possibly about to be indicted and it’s unprecedented. Aren’t his actions unprecedented? I mean we never saw a presidential candidate give $130,000 to a porn star to keep her from — from talking. I mean, these are unprecedented actions.

PENCE: Well Jon, I — as you know, those — those events transpired before I even joined the national ticket and so I can’t — I can’t speak to the merits of the case.

KARL: Well, the payoff happened just two weeks before the election.

PENCE: But I can’t speak to the merits of the case and in America, you’re innocent until proven guilty. That’s not always true in the national media, but it is true in our justice system. And look, I know that President Trump can take care of himself and — and this process will play out, if in fact an indictment comes down. But I just have to tell you that the politicization that we see in the Justice Department, the fact that in New York, the attorney general and other Democrats running for office in criminal justice system, actually ran on a promise to get Donald Trump, I think, is deeply troubling to millions of Americans who want to see the equal treatment before the law.

KARL: Do you think people should be out protesting that? Do you think they should be protesting the courthouse? Do you think —

PENCE: Look, Jon, I think the American people have a right to let their voice be heard. But I am hoping and confident that people that may give voice to their frustration this week and in the days ahead will do so in the best American tradition, and that is peacefully, and use their First Amendment rights in the way that we all respect.

KARL: What do you think of Kevin McCarthy, Speaker McCarthy, coming out and denouncing this and saying that there’s gonna be a congressional investigation into — into all of this. Do you want federal interference into what is done by a Manhattan D.A. or any district attorney?

PENCE: Jon, I gotta tell you, as I travel around the country, people are very concerned about the politicization that we’ve seen at the Justice Department. During the Trump-Pence administration, we saw FBI’s — agents that were falsifying documents to obtain search warrants, we found about politics driving decision at — at the highest level. And again, in NYC I have to — look no one’s above the law, but when you have the attorney general campaign on a promise to get a particular American indicted, and you have other Democrat officials that pledge the same, this is not equal justice before the law. This — this looks like the criminalization of politics and the American people aren’t having it. And frankly —

KARL: But he would have the right to defend himself and to be heard by a jury of his peers, etc., etc. I mean don’t you have faith in that system? Whatever you may think about the prosecution, he’s got a chance to defend himself.

PENCE: I have — I have no doubt that President Trump knows how to take care of himself. And he will. But that doesn’t make it right to have a politically charged prosecution of a former president of the United States of America. I mean, look, we live in a very divided time in this country and for prosecutors to bring a case on — on this matter at a time that we ought to be healing our country. We ought to be finding ways to bring Americans together. We’re facing real challenges in this country. I mean — I mean literally, I was in New Hampshire not long ago and a guy running a restaurant said to me that eggs had gone from a nickel to 30 cents a piece, and he’s struggling to keep people on the payroll at his restaurant. I mean, you got families that are facing high gasoline prices. You got a crisis at our border. It’s not just 5 million people coming into America, but also Jon you’ve got an avalanche of fentanyl that is claiming lives in every big city and small town in this country.

The American people want to see leaders in Washington who will focus on the issues they care about, they’re concerned about and — and to see that what appears to be a politically motivated prosecution, that I know many in the national media will spend all their time talking about, I don’t believe that’s what the American people want our leaders in Washington focused on and — and it’s not what I’m gonna focus on as well.

KARL: I want to ask you about your recent remarks about Donald Trump and — and Jan. 6, you said that history will hold Donald Trump accountable. How?

PENCE: Well, we all face the judgment of history and I believe in the fullness of time that, that history will hold Donald Trump accountable for the events of Jan. 6, as it will other people that were involved.

KARL: In what ways? What will history say about his actions?

PENCE: Well it will be the judgment of history, I truly believe it. And I also think the American people will also have their say. I mean the president is now a candidate for office again, he’s running for election but as I go around the country, I’m, I’m convinced the American people have learned the lessons of that day. They’ve internalized what they have learned over the last two years, including in much of your good work on this topic. They know what happened. They know the fact that the president’s reckless words endangered people at the Capitol that day, including me and my family, and I believe they’ll, they’ll factor all of that in as they make decisions going forward in this country, but — again, I, I honestly can tell you that I just think that the American people want leaders in Washington. They want voices in the national debate that are focused on the issues that are affecting their lives. They’ll make their own judgment about what happened on Jan. 6. They’ll make their own judgment about this administration and its failures at home and abroad. And I think ultimately history, history will hold Donald Trump accountable for that day.

KARL: Trump actually said in response to what you said recently about Jan. 6, that it was your fault. That if you had done what he was asking you to do, throwing out those electoral votes, you wouldn’t have had a Jan. 6 as we know it. That’s what he said. What do you make of that? It was your fault. That you were to blame.

PENCE: Well I know one of the, one of the attorneys that was advising the president said the same thing in a text on January the sixth but his attorneys were wrong and –

KARL: John Eastman.

PENCE: President Trump is wrong. I know by God’s grace, we did our duty that day, to act out the express language of the Constitution of the United States. States control elections. Once states send electoral votes to the Congress, the only role that the Congress has is to open and count — they can consider objections, which Democrats brought in the last three elections that Republicans prevailed. They can consider [objections] but at the end of the day, the job of the Congress is to open and count electoral votes certified by the states — no more, no less. We did our duty that day to ensure the peaceful transfer of power under the Constitution of the United States.

KARL: I mean he says, “In many ways you can blame him for Jan. 6.” I mean you were the one that had to be evacuated. That, that, that was facing calls for people who, who were saying that they wanted to hang you. And he’s saying, “in many ways you can blame him,” blame you for Jan. 6.

PENCE: Well, it’s one of the reasons why despite the fact that the president and I actually parted amicably when we left the White House on Jan. 20 [2021]. And spoke several times in the weeks that followed that. After I saw him return to that type of rhetoric in the spring of 2021, we’ve, we’ve just gone our separate ways. I know we did our duty that day. I know the president continues to have a strong difference of opinion about my responsibilities that day, but I, I, I trust my actions to the judgment of history and the judgment of the American people — I think — the people of this country love our Constitution and, and they want to see elected officials, uphold the Constitution and stand on that foundation and … whatever the future holds for me and my little family we’ll always aspire to do just that.

KARL: I want to play you something … and if you have the video here. I want to play you something Donald Trump said to me when I asked him if he was concerned about your safety on that day. This is a — asked directly about …

(BEGIN AUDIO – MARCH 18, 2021)

KARL: Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?

FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: No, I thought he was well-protected, and I had heard that he was in good shape … No, because, uh, I had heard he was in very good shape. But, but — no, I think —

KARL: Because you heard those chants, that was terrible. I mean, you know, those —

TRUMP: He could have — well, the people were very angry.

KARL: They were saying hang Mike Pence.

TRUMP: Because it’s — it’s commonsense, Jon, it’s commonsense, that you’re supposed to protect. How can you — if you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?

(END AUDIO)

KARL: I mean, he’s effectively justifying or excusing the actions of people who were, who were calling for you to be hanged.

PENCE: There was no excuse for the violence that took place at the Capitol on Jan. 6, and I’ll never diminish it as long as I live. But look I — the president’s wrong. He was wrong that day and … I had actually hoped that he would come around in time, Jon, that he would see that the cadre of legal advisers that he surrounded himself with had led him astray. But he hasn’t done so and it’s, I think it’s one of the reasons why the country just wants a fresh start. Our duty is to the Constitution of the United States. Now there were irregularities in that election — they were reviewed by the courts around the country. States had changed the rules in the election in the name of COVID. And I thought it was—

KARL: But — but you don’t think the election was stolen I mean you, you’ve said that–

PENCE: Look, I think it was worthwhile that the Congress debate the objections and consider the facts and then move forward with the peaceful transfer of power all under the Constitution and, and the laws of this country but … at the end of the day, I’ll let history be the judge, the American people be the judge and I’ll always know we did our duty that day.

KARL: But does saying — justifying those murderous chants — does way he’s talked about it since. Does that effectively disqualify him from being commander in chief again? What do you think about — that you’d have somebody that would again, justify those chants back in a position of authority.

PENCE: I think that’s a judgment for the American people.

KARL: What’s your judgment about it?

PENCE: And I’m confident they’ll make it. Well, look, I will be honest with you. I was angry that day. And while I believe in forgiveness, I’ve been working hard at that for a while. The president let me down that day. He let the country down that day. But thanks to the courage of law enforcement, the riot was quelled. We reconvened the Congress, the very same day and a day of tragedy became a triumph of freedom. And I’ll always be proud of our small part in that, but be honest with you the emotions of that day, the emotion since, I just haven’t had time for it. To me, there’s just too many issues that we’re facing this country today under the failed policies of this administration that I don’t have a lot of time for looking backwards.

KARL: Could you ever–

PENCE: –I’m looking forward and uh focused on whatever role we might play in helping to turn this country around.

KARL: Could you ever support him again for president?

PENCE: I think that’s yet to be seen, Jon. I must tell you that I think we’ll have better choices. We’re going to decide as a family whether we offer ourselves as one of them but I think different times call for different leadership. I think the American people long for leadership at the highest level that’s focused on the issues that are affecting their lives. And also, I think they longed for leadership that will keep faith with our highest traditions, including the foundation of the Constitution of the United States.

KARL: You had said back in September of 2020, that President Trump “he’s a man of his word.” You still believe that—?

MP: I’m very proud of the record of the Trump Pence administration.

KARL: But is he a man of his word?

PENCE: On one issue after another, we kept our word to the American people. Whether it be rebuilding the military, cutting taxes, unleashing American energy, securing the border, appointing conservative judges, putting pro-life judges to the Supreme Court that gave us a new beginning for life. One issue after another, I saw the president keep the word that he made to the American people and I was, I was proud those four years to stand with him. And I know that grates on some people in the national media, Jon. As I wrote in my book, I’m incredibly proud of the record of our administration. It didn’t end well, ended in controversy, but those four years we saw America through that pandemic, we we led our nation to greater prosperity and security in those first three years than anytime in my lifetime. And I’ll always be proud of the record of the Trump Pence administration.

KARL: I’m not asking you about the record. I’m asking you about the man. I mean, you had said another time, “I always tell people to know President Trump is to know someone whose word is his bond.” I mean, this is somebody that, as you acknowledged in your book, lied to the American people about what you had told him about Jan. 6, that you couldn’t do it. And he put out a statement saying you were in complete agreement with him — I mean that’s just one of many, many, many examples. You don’t still think that to know President Trump is to know that his word is his bond, again, not the record of the administration, Donald Trump, the man.

PENCE: I said that at that time and I meant it. I was deeply disappointed with the president’s words and conduct in the days leading up to Jan. 6, and on Jan. 6.

KARL: And since right? And since?

(CROSSTALK)

PENCE: Yes, you know, but but, you know, as I wrote in my book, the next day when the president committed to a peaceful transfer of power when he condemned the violence at the Capitol. I thought we were back on track and in the week that followed we would we spoke, I was very direct with him about my experience, and my view of it, and my belief that I’d done my duty, and we parted amicably and respectfully, but in the months that followed, he returned to that that same rhetoric he was using before Jan. 6, rhetoric that continues much up to this day and and that’s why we’ve gone our separate ways. And I continue to, I continue to be disappointed in the fact that the president has not seen his way clear to know that by God’s grace, we did our duty that day.

KARL: Can you can you clarify your position on testifying to the special counsel? I know that you’ve cited the speech and debate clause, you don’t want to talk about your role in presiding over the Congress on that day, but my understanding of the subpoenas are 16 separate things that they want from you — 16 different topic areas — and only maybe the most two of them would directly be about you presiding over the joint session that day. So are you willing to testify about other matters?

PENCE: Well, Jon, as you know, I’m limited in what I can say about proceedings related to the grand jury, but just as I did on Jan. 6, when I upheld the Constitution of the United States, I think preserving the separation of powers, the speech and debate protections that legislators have, and that those operating in the legislative branch have, is enormously important to the life of the nation. We simply don’t want an executive branch to be able to haul legislators into court every time that there’s a policy dispute. And so I’ve directed my attorneys to make, uh make a strong case in defense of my role as president of the Senate, presiding over a joint session of Congress on that day and in the preparation for that, and we’ll let the courts sort it out but I’ve actually never asserted that other matters unrelated to Jan. 6, would otherwise be protected by speech and debate. But I—

KARL: -So you may be willing to testify on other matters just not specifically your role–

PENCE: -I’m going to stand firm on the Constitution of the United States. We’ll let the courts sort that out. And, but I’ll [crosstalk] — I’ll obey the law

KARL: —Because I don’t want to misinterpret your remarks. You are open to testifying on other matters?

PENCE: We’re going to respect the decisions of the court and that may take us all the way to the highest court in the land. But I think this principle is an important one and I — I hope that people will see that throughout my career I’ve been a constitutional conservative, someone who believes in the Constitution as written and believes that the separation of powers is just as important as the work that we did, ensuring the peaceful transfer of power. Look, this is the greatest nation in the history of the world. And I believe much of that greatness springs from the heart of the American people, the faith in the American people. But ultimately, it is that form of government enshrined in the Constitution of the United States that has made it possible for us to create this extraordinary United States of America and I’m gonna stand on that. And we’re gonna make that case, but I promise you we’ll respect the decisions of the court. But I’m going to stand firmly on the Constitution.

KARL: But it’s not that you’re objecting to talking about, for instance, the broader effort to overturn the election. That was one of the other items.

PENCE: As I’ve said, we’re not asserting executive privilege, which may encompass other discussions. I believe the president may well have brought a claim for that. But I just believe that the work that I did preparing for and conducting on my role as president of the Senate is covered by the speech and debate clause. I believe we have the law on our side-

KARL: But the other issues

PENCE: But we’ll wait and see on the court.

KARL: OK. OK. Thank you for clarifying that because I know that you think big picture. Nobody is above the law. You don’t think Donald Trump is above the law?

PENCE: Nobody’s above the law. But nobody’s beneath the law either. And the American people are troubled after four years of our administration, seeing the politicization of the Justice Department, I strongly support the efforts in Congress to investigate the role that politics is playing in our justice system today. And this latest news of, of the Manhattan D.A. determined to apparently bring an indictment against a former president of the United States just feels like one more example of politics being in the lead in our justice system. And that’s not what the American people want. We want equal justice before the law, and that’s a principle I’ll always stand on.

KARL: So let’s turn to the next election — you’re here in Iowa. Are you running for president?

PENCE: Well, we’re giving serious consideration to it, Jon, and we’re getting a lot of encouragement, not only here in Iowa, but all across the country. When I, when I think of the blessings I’ve had in my life to serve in the Congress for 12 years, to serve as governor of Indiana and then as vice president of the United States and then I think of the magnitude of challenges facing this country at home and abroad under the failed record of the Biden administration, we’re, we’re giving, we’re giving prayerful consideration to what role we might play, but I think now is the time for for all of us that care about this country to consider our part to play a part and to make sure that we elect leadership at every level that will turn this country around in 2024 and beyond.

KARL: You said previously that your decision would come by spring. I know it doesn’t feel like spring out there. But Monday is officially the first day of spring. What’s your, what’s your timeline?

PENCE: Well, I can tell you we’re getting closer. I’ve been spending time with our family, been listening to friends around the country. And I expect before too long we’ll — we’ll know what our calling is. You know, Jon, it’s always for our family, It’s all about, It’s all about what we feel called to do. I think there’s two kinds of people in politics: people that are driven and people that are called. If you know my story, you’ll know I’ve been both in my life, but the last 20 years we’ve just tried to respond to what we sense is a calling of the American people and a sense of God’s calling in our life and we think we’ll have a good sense of that in the near future and I promise to keep you posted.

KARL: On Ukraine, you’ve taken, you’ve staken out really I guess you’d call it a Reagan-esque position of defending Ukraine, standing up against Russian aggression, but I’m sure you heard Gov. DeSantis say that the war in Ukraine is a territorial dispute. You would disagree.

PENCE: The war in Ukraine is not a territorial dispute. It’s a Russian invasion. It’s just the latest instance of Russia attempting to redraw international lines by force, and the United States of America must continue at a quickened pace to provide the Ukrainian military the support that they need to repel the Russian invasion, and the stakes are that high. This is, this is a test of American leadership, And a test, frankly, of the free world. As the leader of the free world, as the arsenal of Democracy, America needs to continue to ensure that the Ukrainian military has what they need. Anybody that thinks that Vladimir Putin will stop if he overruns Ukraine has another thing coming, Jon. And there’s no doubt in my mind, that the Baltics could be next. That what Putin is about, is reasserting that old Soviet sphere of influence in Eastern Europe. And the difference would be once he crosses into a NATO country we’ll have no choice but to send American service members into harm’s way. Now we can do as Ronald Reagan said we can, we can provide freedom fighters in their own countries, the resources to repel aggression there so that we don’t have to fight ’em here with our own soldiers. And that’s what we need to continue to do in Ukraine. I’ll continue to be a voice for that.

KARL: So what do you make of DeSantis calling it a territorial dispute? Because that’s virtually exactly what, how Putin describes it. And you said there’s no place for Putin apologists in the Republican Party and why is DeSantis-

PENCE: -Well

KARL: -saying that-

PENCE: There, there are, there are voices in our party that don’t see a vital American interest in Ukraine. But I see it differently. I truly do believe in that Reagan Doctrine that used to say back in the 1980s, that if you’re willing to fight the communists there, we’ll give you what you need, so we don’t have to fight ’em here. That set into motion the policies that brought the collapse of the Soviet Union. We, we have Russian aggression on the move, again, just as they did under Obama and Crimea, as they did under President Bush in Georgia. And we have to meet this moment with American strength. And make no mistake about it: Not only is American strength and the strength of the free world required to restrain Russia’s ambitions, but I think by standing strong with the Ukrainian people against Russia, we’ll also send a very clear message to China about its ambitions in the Asia Pacific and make sure they understand that the free world is prepared to rally around places like Taiwan in the event that, that China decides to move with the kind of aggression that we’ve seen from the Russian military.

KARL: Chris Christie said that DeSantis was naive in thinking we could just walk away. Do you see it that way? Is it naive to think that the United States can disengage and let the Russians and Ukrainians fight it out?

PENCE: I — I wouldn’t want to characterize it any other way than saying it’s wrong. The fact is, that, that Russia attempted to redraw international lines by force, under, under every administration in the 21st century except ours. And I think it was because we made historic investments in our military, we were willing to use force in Syria against the Bashar Assad’s regime. We, we unleashed the American military to take down the ISIS caliphate that, the, Russia saw American strength during the Trump-Pence administration. And after that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, I can’t help but believe that emboldened the enemies of freedom around the world. And so now more than ever, but we need to stand firm and let me say again, the Biden administration has to hasten and quicken the support that they’re providing to the Ukrainians.

KARL: F-16s?

PENCE: This, this business of pledging 33 Abrams tanks in January and then saying they won’t be there for a year and a half is unacceptable. We ought to provide the tanks, the missiles and the aircraft that the Ukrainian military can use to take the fight to the Russians. President Biden said in his State of the Union address that we’re there as long as it takes. Well the American people know it shouldn’t take that long. If we marshal the resources of the free world, the arsenal of democracy, give them what they need, they’ve demonstrated their courage, their tenacity and I believe the Ukrainians can repel that Russian invasion and reassert, reestablish peace in Eastern Europe.

KARL: Does President Biden deserve some credit, though, for keeping NATO together on this?

PENCE: Well, I think there’s a lot of credit to go around with NATO. We called on NATO to make renewed investments in our common defense and before we left office, $150 billion in commitments from NATO countries for our common defense. NATO was stronger the day we left office than the day we came into office. But I want to say again, I think the fact that the Biden administration cut off military aid to Ukraine in the early days of their administration, and then has been slow in providing that military aid, needs to be called out. I do believe that it’s imperative that we remain there. It’s commendable that the United States has provided leadership in the free world to marshal support against the Russian invasion. But, but, my message to the Biden administration is, is, pick up the pace. Give them what they need to win this war and we’ll, we’ll make a contribution to peace in Eastern Europe and in the world.

KARL: We’re just about out of time, but I also want to ask you about something. I want to ask you about what President Trump just said about, about Ukraine. He said that the war is a quote proxy battle between the United States and Russia, and he’s calling for an immediate ceasefire. Which, effectively, I, would freeze Putin’s gains in place, I suppose. I mean, what do you think about what President Trump is saying about Ukraine?

PENCE: Well, as I said, whether it’s President Trump or others in our party around the country, there, there are those who see some choice before us, other than giving Ukraine the ability to fight and win against the Russian invasion. I believe it’s imperative that we stand firm. That we continue to provide the Ukrainian military the resources that they need to repel the Russian invasion. And that will be the fastest way to secure peace and stability in Ukraine and in Eastern Europe.

KARL: Alright, Vice President Pence thank you for taking the time and I’ll hold you to it, you’ll let us know when you decide about running for president

PENCE: We sure will, Jon. Thank you.

KARL: Thank you. Take care, sir. Appreciate it.

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